Members' Opinion Polls
|Message board > Members' Opinion Polls > Members' poll: How should the novices be taught to row?|
|How should the novices be taught to row?|
|by Ingers - Sun 10th Oct 2004, 5:33pm|
|As they were to start with in 1998|
|by Simon - Sun 10th Oct 2004, 5:45pm|
|In a scull?|
|by 98er - Sun 10th Oct 2004, 5:46pm|
Ingers said: As they were to start with in 1998What put into an awful IV...
|by Rupert - Sun 10th Oct 2004, 6:35pm|
|Do you mean they should be taught at a slow pace, or they should be taught to purposely move the boat slowly?!|
|by Ingers - Sun 10th Oct 2004, 6:35pm|
98er said: What put into an awful IV...When I made the comment the voting was on 100% frontstops so I was referring to our plan in '98 to teach from frontstops. Alas, it ran out of steam and we somehow ended up doing it the same way as everyone else (i.e. from backstops) after a week or two.
|by Simon - Sun 10th Oct 2004, 7:21pm|
|I think it's worth telling them that everytime they go off from stationary, they should go off from frontstops. They'll learn to sit the boat on the recovery just as quickly, so will eventually be able to go off from backstops, and will be guaranteed one decent sat stroke (which will hopefully lead to more).|
As to which end you build the stroke up from... it has to be the back end I think. But the coaching should be done slowly.
|by Walter Rantner made me hurt - Mon 11th Oct 2004, 3:06am|
|I think they should be taken to Peterborough at the first opportunity and told to start rowing shteady shtate. When they get to the far end of the river, totally knackered, the coach should ask them vy zey have shtopped and make them turn around and carry on as before. Great intro to what rowing is about...|
|by Martin - Mon 11th Oct 2004, 9:50am|
Rose the Twat said: How should the novices be taught to row?Note to Chris: you can quote the current results when you post, see above!
From backstops: 33%
From frontstops: 44%
|by Notorious - Mon 11th Oct 2004, 10:51am|
Simon said: As to which end you build the stroke up from...Up from which end you build the stroke...?
|by Tom C - Mon 11th Oct 2004, 1:13pm|
|frontstops is rubbish, it just hurts everyone's back.|
|by Simon - Mon 11th Oct 2004, 1:44pm|
Tom C said: frontstops is rubbish, it just hurts everyone's back.Rowing arms only or arms/bodies only is rubbish as it teaches you to pull the oar rather than push the feet...
|by Anna - Mon 11th Oct 2004, 2:13pm|
|What about a combination of the two? There are advantages to both and Tom is right that front stops rowing is a pain in the back. Also, would stop the poor little mites getting cold in the novice traffic jams.|
|by jmg - Mon 11th Oct 2004, 3:38pm|
Tom C said: frontstops is rubbish, it just hurts everyone's back.Agreed - people have to enjoy it or they'll give up, you can't just consider what will be best for their technique in a year's time if none of them are rowing by then!
|by dw229 - Mon 11th Oct 2004, 5:10pm|
|OK - how about from middlestops then? last bit of the leg drive, back and the first bit of arms to start with. Then add more legs and arms.|
|by Sarah - Mon 11th Oct 2004, 5:57pm|
|stop the poor little mites getting cold in the novice traffic jams.|
have you tried teaching them roll ups? the boat doesn't move, yet they do - I use it when coxing (or steering) the mashalling bits of headraces (or regattas to keep moving) slightly more more 'rowing' oriented than 'heads shoulders knees and toes' as a keep moving exercise... anyone who doesn't know what a roll up is, should watch the lovely Mr Foster's video....
|by jpd - Tue 12th Oct 2004, 4:53am|
|Whatever method you use to teach them, keeping them out of eights for longer is a winner. Short sessions (1 or at most 2 points) on the erg, in the tub pair and even the bank tub are all good for the first two -- three weeks. However, this requires a sizeable coaching resource...|
In my opinion the best solution (I think originally suggested by Iain) would be to buy a coatal/tub four. Advantages: can all row together straight away; are easier to cox than an VIII; novices don't get so cold; require fewer coaches than tubs, ergs...; sessions can be shorter (due to first two points, and helps latter two points); it's easier to get five novices together than nine; they still require some sense of balance; less likely to break than an VIII. Disadvantages: cost money (over 5kGBP); require lots of storage space. When can we get one?
|by Simon - Tue 12th Oct 2004, 8:58am|
jpd said: In my opinion the best solution (I think originally suggested by Iain) would be to buy a coastal/tub four.Yes, these are v good for training. You can now get "in-line" boats which allow you to use them for teaching people to scull as well.
The club might be able to recoup some of the cost by hiring them to the Regional Rowing Council for use on recreational rowing tours in the region...
|by RTT - Wed 13th Oct 2004, 8:09am|
|Back to the order of coaching, I think frontstops is the most sensible way. However, don't confuse the isuue by talking about blade entry and connection until at least the second half of term. The main thing is to teach them how to use their legs, then how to use their backs, then how to use their arms. So the simplest stroke you use should be "legs only". None of this tapping, first two inches, first six inches, first 9 3/4 inches crap. All this does is (as mentioned previosuly) hurt your back. Plus it teaches you to stop mid leg drive, which is hardly something we want novices doing. No, this exercise should not be done until you have learnt a full leg drive (so at least 10000 full leg strokes).|
|by Simon - Wed 13th Oct 2004, 5:48pm|
|I voted for the backstops option because in my opinion the rhythm of the boat and the connection are the most important thing by far. Movement through frontstops should be fluid and not a stopping point. If I really had a choice I would start somewhere between backstops and halfway through the recovery changing each time. |
How many people who were taught from backstops had to spend a lot of time reducing pause at the finish and those from frontstops reducing the hang.
After all those 10k strokes you do as a novice will create muscle memory, which you will probably spend most of your rowing career getting rid of!
|by Ingers - Thu 14th Oct 2004, 9:27pm|
|I'm not sure I agree with Simon. I have seen many, many crews taught from backstops who belt up the slide (as when you start rowing they want to get on with it) and then have so much forward speed they both hang and then row in. If you start at the front, as RTT says, they learn to use their legs and so get a feeling for what we mean by connection. Rhythm off the back end is impossible to generate unless the boat has been adequately picked up during the stroke.|
|by jpd - Fri 15th Oct 2004, 5:29am|
|I agree with Chris - whilst ideas like rhythm and connection can be used tune the crew to row really fast, it is the use of the legs that will get the crew most of the way there. Many people never really learn this, and so will never move a boat particularly fast no matter how good their connection or rhythm. This is one reason why some rowers/crews who appear to row "really well" don't move a boat very fast whilst others (of similar physiology) can move a boat quite quickly whilst looking pretty messy.|
|by jpd - Fri 15th Oct 2004, 5:36am|
jpd said: I agree with Chris - whilst ideas like rhythm and connection can be used tune the crew to row really fast, it is the use of the legs that will get the crew most of the way there.Also, most people can easily understand the need to use the legs, and it gives them an obvious goal towards which to work. Rhythm and (to a lesser extent) connection are harder to understand; novices will enjoy themselves much more and respond much better to something obvious than something that, when you explain it, they just look blankly at you (or perhaps I'm just rubbish at explaining things).
|by mjb - Fri 15th Oct 2004, 8:35am|
Ingers said: ... belt up the slide ... and then have so much forward speed they both hang and then row in ...I was taught from backstops ...
|by jpd - Fri 15th Oct 2004, 9:27am|
mjb said: I was taught from backstops ...The reason you're slow through the front end is forward momentum, not speed :)
|by mjb - Fri 15th Oct 2004, 10:11am|
jpd said: The reason you're slow through the front end is forward momentum, not speed :)Although Ingers said "speed", I'd have thought that the effect is caused by the momentum associated with said speed, so my point should still be valid.